Some questions on importing, classifying, old trade data

Your Accointing_template.xlsx file, for preparing larger numbers of manual trade records, has three different types: deposit, withdraw, order.

What is the type “order”?

How do I code a transfer in that format - say moving 0.01 BTC from Coindesk to Kraken? Do I just have to create two transactions, one withdraw from Coindesk, one deposit to Kraken, for the same Amount (0.01 in this example), in the same Unit (BTC in this example), with the Deposit 0 to 6 hours after the Withdraw, and for extra credit, a common “operationId” value on both transactions ?

If there is a fee, do I record the amount with, or without, the fee? Let’s say that I paid a 0.0001 BTC fee on that transaction, ending up with only 0.0099 BTC in my receiving Kraken account. What BuyAmount, SellAmount, and FeeAmount would I put on each of these two transactions, the Withdraw from Coindesk, and the Deposit to Kraken?

My ancient history, which I am trying to import, is the usual mess, including some wallets and exchanges that no longer exist. So I intend to prepare a “best estimate” consistent story that matches the various records I can find, and import that into Accointing.

Being an old text editor based programmer, I will likely work in raw csv files, but those convert in and out of my spreadsheet program (LibreOffice Calc) .xlsx just fine, so whichever I can import into Accointing should be fine. [[ There was no question in these last two paragraphs, unless some detail in them prompts a reader to correct some confusion or ignorance on my part, or perhaps they provide context useful in answering my questions. ]]

Also, the Deposit and Withdraw types each have a dozen or more classifications possible. Does Accointing do anything different, depending on which, if any, classification I pick, or is that essentially just a label to help me remember what I thought that transaction was trying to accomplish?

Or, in this example, should I record it as three transactions, in this order:

  1. Charge fee of 0.0001 BTC, reducing Coindesk BTC balance from 0.01 BTC to 0.0099 BTC
  2. Withdraw 0.0099BTC from Coindesk
  3. Deposit 0.0099BTC to Kraken

It’s been almost 2 days since I posted this question, and almost 1 day since I added a followup question.

How long should I expect to wait for a response?

I’m beginning to guess that no one has a primary task of responding to Accointing support questions, whether here or via your support@accointing.com email account (where my earlier questions waited 4 days before receiving a reply). If my guess is correct, then perhaps Accointing should consider re-adjusting their resource allocation … or if that’s not practical, at least setting expectations more clearly to those submitting questions via email or on this community forum.

Size matters in this business. As in many businesses, it’s “Get Big or Get Steamrolled.” Support for newbies (I may be a grizzled old software geek, but I’m an Accointing newbie) is one, of several, gating factors to continued, rapid, growth.

Is there some other place, or way, that I should ask my questions, or are my expectations that this was an appropriate place to ask my above questions “misplaced”, or should I expect it might just take several days here?

this is buying new coins with cash… some exchanges use this order type when linking to their api or downloading their XML transaction file. its less confusing if you don’t use that type and just properly classify the deposits as “add funds”.

yes, like you said to do a transfer between exchanges you would do a deposit in one and a withdraw in the other. make sure the transfer is in the same amounts and timestamp so they can be classified as ‘internal’ after being added to Accointing. you can add the same ‘opperationID’ if you like but it isn’t required.

you put it under the fee section with the fee asset listed as what kind of fee it was. For your example if you were transferring 1 BTC with a fee of .0001 BTC then you put that fee in the fee section of the withdraw and the withdraw amount of .0099 BTC. In the deposit section put the same .0099 BTC with no fee on the transaction.

while you will have to manually add exchange transactions, you can still import wallet transactions if you have the wallet address and the network used is supported. for example, if you had an ether wallet from a maker that no longer exists you can select ether under the wallet section and put the address in and it will import all transactions.

there might be tax consequences depending on your classification. below is a link to what they are.

2 Likes

you can also easily classify transactions after being added so i wouldn’t worry about adding classifications in the XML file. They might not transfer over depending on if you added them wrong or not. Some types are only for deposits and some only for withdraws, plus some listed on that link don’t show up as available when trying to add them.

1 Like

I’m guessing it took so long because of the length of your post. I saw this earlier but didn’t have time to read and properly answer the questions. but i am pretty sure a lot of posts go days without being answered especially ones that are harder to answer.

1 Like

Thanks for your considered and detailed replies. That helps a lot.

Aha - that answers (at least as regards Accointing) a question I had long had with various portfolio management tools - whether the amounts withdrawn and deposited on a transfer should or should not include the fee.

But Column A, “transactionType” in your Accointing_template.xlsx, has no “add funds” option. It only has, according to the “READ ME” page of that spreadsheet, three possible values, “deposit”, “withdraw”, or “order”.

So, I am guessing, you were continuing on to answer a further question, that I didn’t ask, which is what to put in Column I, “classification (optional)”, for those entries that I had marked “deposit” in Column A.

So let me restate my question:

When, if ever, should I label an entry as “order”, in Column A “transactionType” ?

this is an example of an order from an exchange i use.

as you can see the add funds classification is listed for the deposit of cash. then the order is spending that cash to purchase a some coins.

also ignore this quote posted below, it looks like i might have been wrong.

i was referring to doing this with card purchases of coins straight from your wallet…

it seems like i may have been doing it wrong here. The add funds classification seems to be for adding money to your portfolio, like from a bank deposit or the like. so what i need to do to change it is, manually add a deposit of USD and add the classification to that as “add funds” then do an order of ETH using those funds.

i have been ignoring the order type of transaction but it seems like its the same as a swap classification, although more simplified. to create an order transaction you just need the selling coin and the buying coin, which is the same as a swap.

1 Like

Is there any chance that someone who has access to and understands the actual code, and who has good English documentation skills, can accurately state on the “READ ME” page of the Accointing_template.xlsx spreadsheet what the type “order” means in Column A, “transactionType”? When can the transactionType of “order” optionally be used? When must it be used?

Currently, other than stating that “order” is a valid value for that column, there is no suggestion that I’ve seen in that spreadsheet, or linked to from that spreadsheet, as to what “order” might mean, and it seems that we are somewhat guessing here (that or I failed to sufficiently understand your last reply – quite possible).

(Are you hiring? Perhaps, remote chance, I could be that someone, though it would probably take me more time to get up to speed than would be desirable.)

Hey @ThePythonicCow I see that @alantbarlow was able to answer a lot of questions. Are there any questions that have gone unanswered? I have sent your request of the READ ME page of the Accointing_template to our support. Order means that you are trading one asset for another such as selling BTC to buy ETH or to sell fiat to buy LTC.

Also, I like to point out that there are examples on the template, some people don’t notice.

If you would like to apply for a job, see this post: Community Manager and Support Specialist (Part time or 100% role)

2 Likes

Hey @ThePythonicCow. Here’s a video for it: Importing an Excel Template into ACCOINTING.com - YouTube

1 Like

Thanks, Matt and Rod!

I now understand that the key to understanding the template terms for transaction types, “deposit, withdraw, order” is to realize that these terms indicate whether assets are moving into (deposit), out of (withdraw), or staying within (just changing between one coin and another) that particular exchange or wallet account.

Since the only interesting thing one can do with an existing asset of coins or currency, that is already in a particular exchange account or wallet, and which remains in some form in that same account, is to change what coin or currency it is held in, that implies that “order” is such an exchange.

If an existing asset on an exchange account or wallet earns some more income, interest, … or costs some fees or such, then, from the perspective of that particular account or wallet, it is more coming in (deposit), or going out (withdraw).

Note: As another way of saying the above, any one filled out and uploaded Accointing_template.xlsx spreadsheet only describes some transactions occurring within one particular cryptocurrency exchange account or wallet.

Therefore what are called “internal” transactions in some other contexts in Accointing (what I would call “transfers” of a given asset from one account/wallet to another) can NOT be fully represented in a single Accointing_template.xlsx spreadsheet. At most only one half of such a transfer can be represented, as either a deposit or withdraw from the account represented in that particular spreadsheet.

Accointing could learn of each of the two halves of such a transfer in different ways, which ways include (I’ve probably left some ways out):

  1. learning of the withdrawal via an API connection to an exchange or
  2. by your uploading a CSV file describing some transactions, or
  3. by manually entering an individual transaction using the web interface, or
  4. by uploading a filled in Accointing_template.xlsx spreadsheet.

Once Accointing happens to learn of both halves of a transfer of some amount of crypto coins or currency from one exchange or wallet to another, if:

  • the deposit is 1 minute to 6 hours after the withdraw,
  • the amounts are identical,
  • the “classification” of each of the two transactions is suitable (what is suitable?), and
  • the transaction ID is the same on both transactions (is this essential?),

then

  • some online displays of that transaction pair will show that pair of transactions as a single transaction, with both a Transaction Type and Classification as “Internal”, and with the time and date and exchange account/wallet identification for both halves of the transfer, the withdraw and the deposit, shown.

Once a pair of matching withdraw/deposit transactions are so identified, Accointing will handle that event differently for tax purposes, by considering it a move of an existing asset, without causing income or capital gains tax events.

Thus, while internal (aka “transfer”) transactions are important for getting your taxes right (they avoid labeling as a buy or sell what is really just a transfer of an existing asset), you cannot enter them directly on a Accointing_template.xlsx spreadsheet. You cannot even enter both halves of a given transfer on the same single Accointing_template.xlsx spreadsheet. You can only, at most, enter one, or the other, half, the deposit or withdraw, and then leave it up to Accointing to discover the “internal” (transfer), once you have gotten all the details (dates, amounts, classifications, transaction ids) just right on both halves.

Interesting point, you can only do half of an internal with a spreadsheet upload. You would have to later go to the review sections to mark internals. This would be why we only talk about internals here in the template:

I think we are assuming that people will mark internals as a deposit / withdraw on the spreadsheet and later mark them as internal.

Good inside, I will see if we can make a change to the Template’s wording thank you!

Are we good to close the topic?

1 Like

Yes - OK to close - Thanks !

1 Like